No temple unless your ascended? - Page 4 - Guild Wars Forums

Gedscho · Jul 15, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paine

1. Ascend
2. Welcome to the Temple of the Ages

aaaaaaaah i am blinded by that bright and burning light of wisdom!

Acan Vishnu · Jul 15, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Also note that given regular progression through the game (not using lornar's pass) that the desert missions are the first places that you can get elites for your characters and that in the sourthern shiverpeaks is where many more are. To me it makes sense to limit the temple to characters that have ascended, it fits the storyline and it fits to have more powerful players in the underworld and the fissure.

As far as having the ToA earlier in the game than you can use it.. well, the first quest I remember actually telling you to go there is in fisherman's haven, at which point your pretty much to ascension anyway. I can see new players going there, finding out about it and saying "Oh, thats neat, I want to do that".

Also it might add a little more to the ascension process. I've had new guildmates ask me whats the big deal with ascension and the best I could really say is that its just a part of the plot, not anything really special, at least now there is a tangible gain from doing it beyond the extra experience.

kitt3n · Jul 15, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

>uuurrmmm... the major flaw of this little theory maybe is the 2 man team size?
Well, I can honestly tell I spent one evening with my friend doing that - and
it was _lots_ of fun... We cleaned the entire area of all chars (not a single one
standing!).

Characters were: Wa/Mo and pure Elementalist, both level 8.

Here's a screenie:
http://members.home.nl/rboerdijk/gfx...wars/gw013.jpg

Gedscho · Jul 15, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

sure sure, but the flaw of the team size doesnt refer to the difficulty
but to the 8man practice

to the temple thing:
i am just so pissed, when someone takes a bit more of the "freedom" you have.
we are restricted enough, because its a computer game, why should we immolate ourselves even more? i dont like any "absolutist" approach on troubleshooting. give players the possibility to decide.
and dont decide for them.
before the patch we could NOT choose, if we want non ascended players, because we couldnt tell. oh well, we could, if we knew each other.
now we can NOT choose because ANET already did.

for me the most important thing in a game are options and possibilities. the more ways i got to do something, the better.

oh and dont get me wrong, ascension is definetly cool and worth doing.

so, dear smitty, therefore you must go and find AAAAAnother shrubbery.

Dralon · Jul 15, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

If this rule change is valid then it should be implemented that you can't get to droknar's and get high end armor until you are ascended. All the same reasoning supporting non ascended in UW/Fissure is used to explain Droknar's rushing. Arena net should be consistent.

My opinion, and it is their game so they can do what they want.

smitty-gw · Jul 15, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

My biggest worry has already been brought up, but not addressed. What's to stop a level 20 character who is not ascended from joining a UW or FOW group? 8 people enter the mission and only 7 (or less) arrive.

I can go there with my Monk who is ascended. I have a non-ascended Mesmer that used to go there designed from day one specifically for FoW because I really love that place. Obviously I will get him ascended now.

I have no problem with this change as I agree with most of the posters in this thread. I just don't want to drop with 8 and end up down there with 5 or 6 people. I wish there was a way to stop that from happening.

Now if that is the case then I agree, A-net totally screwed up. If so, they will rectify in short order methinks.

smitty-gw · Jul 15, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dralon

If this rule change is valid then it should be implemented that you can't get to droknar's and get high end armor until you are ascended. All the same reasoning supporting non ascended in UW/Fissure is used to explain Droknar's rushing. Arena net should be consistent.

My opinion, and it is their game so they can do what they want.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedscho

so, dear smitty, therefore you must go and find AAAAAnother shrubbery.

Torkemada · Jul 15, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gedscho

lol, THAT happens? damnit, then anets solution is even more senseless.
(been to UW yesterday with a full ascended team, the 11 necro was asleep)

but id rather tend to believe, it would block out the whole team.

uuurrmmm... the major flaw of this little theory maybe is the 2 man team size?
how much of a challenge for "team build" you got with starter skills?

sorry, i want to go pvp, and we use certain pve areas for practicing the basics. a 2 man team doesnt come in handy here.

Heh, mine was not a theory, and it doesnt have a flaw. At no time u stated that u used FoW or UW to practice for PvP. U just said u enjoyed the challenge, u wanted to do something different, something that will need all of ur wits and skills to conquer.
I suggested that.
Its major fun fighting those chars, and with only basic skills, and 2 man team, it proves really a challenge.
Other thing u might want to its try to catch the fleeing Char boss, when u do Devona's "Trouble in the Woods" quest. As soon as u cross the bridge a Char boss is there and flees to the zone gate. Catch him before he disapears and kill him.

Just saying, there are plenty of "custom" challenges u can setup for uself to keep the adrenaline pumping, without getting lvl 11 characters into UW of FoW.

If u are really interested in challenges, feel free to pm me, and i'll write u down some of the challenges i made myself.
Free of charge of course...

"Carpe Diem"

Gedscho · Jul 15, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

ok, basically i dont like presearing. landscape is nice, but it bores the hell out of me. i guess, its the team size.
but, well youre right.
on the other hand i think, the only real challenge will be to get to level 12 pre-sear, which is dead boring to me. any other way, i dont know if its doable with starter skills. never tried.

btw, i didnt even know you can stop that charr.
oh. and you got mail.

Chev of Hardass · Jul 15, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

i love level 10 players in the deserts and on fire islands but i hate them in the southetrn shiverpeaks, guess the difference.

Um, to get to the Fire Islands you have to go throught the Southern Shiverpeaks. Just thought I would point that out

And, my Ranger got to Hell's Precipace (sp?) today, he made level 20 capping skills on Pardition Rock. He has every right to beat the easy PvE without those extra Att points, but I would not take him to the UW/Fissure even if I could.

JoDiamonds · Jul 15, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

It's another reward for ascending, which is a good thing. Obviously most older players won't see this viewpoint as much.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I really welcome this change, for once it is possible to avoid those *eh hem* idiots who can't even succeed in ascending

If they can't even make their way through the... *cough* idiot sandbox, what chance of them contributing well to your party?

Feli · Jul 16, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I like this change. No more people blatantly spitting out lies about their armor or Skills. No more people flaming around they are "da uba skilled doodz0r" and can do Underworld and Fissure with Level 10 and 5 AL Armor from Pre-Searing.
It was not much of a problem in Underworld where you can do fine with 2 people runs. One minor player with uber ego doesn't weaken the team much there. If he dies, no problem, no loss. Underworld is about Spike Damage and easily countered with a protective spirit or bond.
However what DID piss me off was those people who went for fissure of woe (the quests there are more easy and faster done) in their newbie armor with some level like 15. Dude, you can tell me the brightest of fairy tales about YOUR personal skill. YOU JUST LACK AL, ELITE SKILLS AND DAMAGE OUTPUT. Did that get through? I doubt it did. Unless you got pulled to Droknar and captured Skills and Armor down there. But even then, your Attributes are spread real thin. Fact.
So you had a person down there who:

a) did not do his job like a fully ascended Character would do
b) was soaking up the monks energy with his noob armor
c) constantly had aggro and decentralized the mobs because he was the weakest link and mobs go after that weakest link.

Master Oria · Jul 16, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dralspire

Personally, I have not taken any team members "down under" that have not got a level 20 character and the 200 attribute points. The main reason is this:

Your team has an output of 8 times 200 attribute points = 1,600 attribute points.
Maximum output: 100%

For one reason or another, players have not assigned all 200 points, let's assume each player has 2 unassigned attribute points. The total comes to 8 times 2 attribute points = 16 attribute points.
Team output: - 1%

Now let's talk about a level 16 character on the team. We will assume that this character has not completed any of the two 15 attribute points quests. As such, level 16 means the player has 110 attribute points to define his skills. For the player, that impacts output to the tune of -45%. It's not hard to see the effect 90 missing attribute points have on the team.
Team output: -5.625%

If - after fighting some Etherbreakers - you still feel that lack of output is not a problem, think of the health implications of a low level character. Hint: he dies quicker and ties up more healing/protection resources, especially due to his lack of maximum armor. This obviously assumes he did not run to Droknar's Forge. As such, I am happy that this problem was solved by means of the last update.

Very very true. I personnaly think Fissure or UW should
only be for people that actualy finish the game. Since only when
your done everything that you got all your Elite skills or most of
them. also, It should mainly be bonus areas for people who are done
everything since they have nothing else to do.

Jeddak · Jul 21, 2005, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paralyze

You and everyone else. Like I said, its a personal opinion. You should have to complete the game before you are allowed into the Temple. Not that it will weed out any horrible players, but it may help reduce the amount that claim they have exp and then get in there and totally blow.

Just because you did well or are experienced on one character does not mean you would be any good on another. I've seen many times where someone will say I have exp with my so and so but that is not the character they are on. Guess what, they are usually the ones that cause the wipes.

Furthermore, anyone under level 20 would never even get my consideration regardless if they have finished or not. Again, another personal preference. I just don't enjoy wasting my time with people who can't listen to anything. I usually pay for my groups because I don't really have a use for more money, and that is why I am quite picky on who i take.

Ahh that explains the less than friendly whispers I recieved when I arrived in TOA after a long and tough fight that started in Bergin Hotsprings (using my trusty henchmen). The whispers were in reply to my question about the function of TOA (I tend to like to learn about games by exploring and talking to other players. I immediately got several insulting whispers as to my noobness (and here I thought I was an explorer). Now I understand why the game is so quiet.

Wrath of m0o · Jul 21, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

It was a nice way to power level your character from 10-20 in like 3-4 hours.
Thats why they blocked it.

Droknar Runs are next !

Lady Lorou · Jul 24, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Personaly i don't think it should matter what level you are. If someone has worked hard for their cash then why shouldnt they buy the best gear,outfit their lil newbie and try something more chalenging? It realy doesnt hurt other players,If you don't wanna group with a low level then you don't invite them to your group.

The trouble with GW is that it is too easy.
I have played many games,of which the max level has taken me 7/8months,whilst guildwars took me only a week.
The only chalenge in guildwars is to be better than everyone else,at a lowever level...because everyone else is max level anyway.
Leveling is so fast that i would find it highly unlikely that any non-level 20 player would have learnt enough to have even heard of the underworld, let alone try to go there.(This may be a little less true in korea but in europe where we hardly have the favor i,myself didnt know about this untill i was well past lvl 20)

Another reason i do not think level requirement should matter is because much of guildwars is not level reliant until you ascend..but even then its not much different. You can have a great weapon and armour at any level,making the only variable a charactors own skill.
I have grouped with many players who are level 20 that have the skill of a level 10 player and the armour to match,maxed out with superior runes and no vigor.

I myself enjoy a chalenge and mostly leveled by discovering the map,taking on extreme chalenges on my lil newbie.

When you take the 'recommended' route and method it takes the fun out of the game. Just because anyone can take a certain combo of players and skills to kill that boss,does not mean anyone trying it a different way should be put down because they show a little creativity.

Stop being so shallow people! Get to know players and you will always know you have a great team that can take on anything.

Jul 15, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53	#64
Gedscho Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: the Zen Men Profession: Mo/W	sure sure, but the flaw of the team size doesnt refer to the difficulty but to the 8man practice to the temple thing: i am just so pissed, when someone takes a bit more of the "freedom" you have. we are restricted enough, because its a computer game, why should we immolate ourselves even more? i dont like any "absolutist" approach on troubleshooting. give players the possibility to decide. and dont decide for them. before the patch we could NOT choose, if we want non ascended players, because we couldnt tell. oh well, we could, if we knew each other. now we can NOT choose because ANET already did. for me the most important thing in a game are options and possibilities. the more ways i got to do something, the better. oh and dont get me wrong, ascension is definetly cool and worth doing. so, dear smitty, therefore you must go and find AAAAAnother shrubbery. Last edited by Gedscho; Jul 15, 2005 at 05:18 PM // 17:18..

Jul 15, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50	#62
Acan Vishnu Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2005 Profession: Mo/N	Also note that given regular progression through the game (not using lornar's pass) that the desert missions are the first places that you can get elites for your characters and that in the sourthern shiverpeaks is where many more are. To me it makes sense to limit the temple to characters that have ascended, it fits the storyline and it fits to have more powerful players in the underworld and the fissure. As far as having the ToA earlier in the game than you can use it.. well, the first quest I remember actually telling you to go there is in fisherman's haven, at which point your pretty much to ascension anyway. I can see new players going there, finding out about it and saying "Oh, thats neat, I want to do that". Also it might add a little more to the ascension process. I've had new guildmates ask me whats the big deal with ascension and the best I could really say is that its just a part of the plot, not anything really special, at least now there is a tangible gain from doing it beyond the extra experience.

Jul 15, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51	#63
kitt3n Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2005	>uuurrmmm... the major flaw of this little theory maybe is the 2 man team size? Well, I can honestly tell I spent one evening with my friend doing that - and it was _lots_ of fun... We cleaned the entire area of all chars (not a single one standing!). Characters were: Wa/Mo and pure Elementalist, both level 8. Here's a screenie: http://members.home.nl/rboerdijk/gfx...wars/gw013.jpg

Jul 15, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56	#65
Dralon Academy Page Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stillwater, OK Profession: R/Mo	If this rule change is valid then it should be implemented that you can't get to droknar's and get high end armor until you are ascended. All the same reasoning supporting non ascended in UW/Fissure is used to explain Droknar's rushing. Arena net should be consistent. My opinion, and it is their game so they can do what they want.

Jul 15, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16	#69
Gedscho Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: the Zen Men Profession: Mo/W	ok, basically i dont like presearing. landscape is nice, but it bores the hell out of me. i guess, its the team size. but, well youre right. on the other hand i think, the only real challenge will be to get to level 12 pre-sear, which is dead boring to me. any other way, i dont know if its doable with starter skills. never tried. btw, i didnt even know you can stop that charr. oh. and you got mail.

Jul 15, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07	#71
JoDiamonds Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New England	It's another reward for ascending, which is a good thing. Obviously most older players won't see this viewpoint as much.

Jul 15, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43	#72
generik Desert Nomad Join Date: Jun 2005	I really welcome this change, for once it is possible to avoid those eh hem idiots who can't even succeed in ascending If they can't even make their way through the... cough idiot sandbox, what chance of them contributing well to your party?

Jul 16, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14	#73
Feli Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	I like this change. No more people blatantly spitting out lies about their armor or Skills. No more people flaming around they are "da uba skilled doodz0r" and can do Underworld and Fissure with Level 10 and 5 AL Armor from Pre-Searing. It was not much of a problem in Underworld where you can do fine with 2 people runs. One minor player with uber ego doesn't weaken the team much there. If he dies, no problem, no loss. Underworld is about Spike Damage and easily countered with a protective spirit or bond. However what DID piss me off was those people who went for fissure of woe (the quests there are more easy and faster done) in their newbie armor with some level like 15. Dude, you can tell me the brightest of fairy tales about YOUR personal skill. YOU JUST LACK AL, ELITE SKILLS AND DAMAGE OUTPUT. Did that get through? I doubt it did. Unless you got pulled to Droknar and captured Skills and Armor down there. But even then, your Attributes are spread real thin. Fact. So you had a person down there who: a) did not do his job like a fully ascended Character would do b) was soaking up the monks energy with his noob armor c) constantly had aggro and decentralized the mobs because he was the weakest link and mobs go after that weakest link.

Jul 21, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37	#76
Wrath of m0o Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Boston Ma. Guild: Is That Your Build[HaHa] Profession: P/W	It was a nice way to power level your character from 10-20 in like 3-4 hours. Thats why they blocked it. Droknar Runs are next !

Jul 24, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51	#77
Lady Lorou Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Crusadors of ascalon Profession: W/Mo	Personaly i don't think it should matter what level you are. If someone has worked hard for their cash then why shouldnt they buy the best gear,outfit their lil newbie and try something more chalenging? It realy doesnt hurt other players,If you don't wanna group with a low level then you don't invite them to your group. The trouble with GW is that it is too easy. I have played many games,of which the max level has taken me 7/8months,whilst guildwars took me only a week. The only chalenge in guildwars is to be better than everyone else,at a lowever level...because everyone else is max level anyway. Leveling is so fast that i would find it highly unlikely that any non-level 20 player would have learnt enough to have even heard of the underworld, let alone try to go there.(This may be a little less true in korea but in europe where we hardly have the favor i,myself didnt know about this untill i was well past lvl 20) Another reason i do not think level requirement should matter is because much of guildwars is not level reliant until you ascend..but even then its not much different. You can have a great weapon and armour at any level,making the only variable a charactors own skill. I have grouped with many players who are level 20 that have the skill of a level 10 player and the armour to match,maxed out with superior runes and no vigor. I myself enjoy a chalenge and mostly leveled by discovering the map,taking on extreme chalenges on my lil newbie. When you take the 'recommended' route and method it takes the fun out of the game. Just because anyone can take a certain combo of players and skills to kill that boss,does not mean anyone trying it a different way should be put down because they show a little creativity. Stop being so shallow people! Get to know players and you will always know you have a great team that can take on anything.